24 Jun 2026
Try the interruption test
Previously: common sense one, bullshit documents zero (Jury verdict in a privacy case)
On the Monopoly Report podcast, Alan Chapell interviews Cindy Cohn, until recently the executive director of the EFF. Episode 78: Privacy’s Defender Cindy Cohn on Encryption, Surveillance, Privacy Rights, and the Future of Digital Freedom.
Listen to the whole thing. One part that I noticed is the discussion of private right of action in privacy laws.
Alan Chapell:
So you you mentioned the private right of action a moment ago and I come at this from a little bit more of a business community perspective. I look at what’s going on with the the California Information Privacy Act or even VPPA. And some of that just seems insane to me because you’re you’re not really helping consumers. You’re creating a whole bunch of challenges for the business community. And not to mention there are a set of rules in California had some some thoughts on how one could do a private right of action that was a little bit more sane.
Cindy Cohn:
I’m a litigator. I think that the courts are a good place to sort out some of these things if you give them the right tools to evaluate them. So, you know, I think simpler rules are easier. I am a huge fan of kind of basic ideas around privacy like no secondary uses of data. If you give information to my phone company because I want my phone to ring it can’t turn around and sell that location data on the open market without something that’s much much higher than a clickbox, right? The rule is not hard. there might be some edge cases but it’s pretty easy. Or I also like the fiduciary duty idea that that we create duties in the people who handle our data to to be loyal to us. Now, that could create a lot more gray spaces because what does loyalty look like and things like that, but we figured it out in negligence law. And in some of the other things, again, there might be a messy middle, but I’d rather see a messy middle than the world now where people lose all control of their data when they give it to the first entity and it becomes theirs to control.
The “challenges for the business community,” though, are not really because of the law, or the lawyers doing private right of action. Lawyers showing up is a symptom of an underlying problem: a mismatch between what’s considered normal in modern marketing and what’s considered acceptable by everyone else. Lawyers file the cases that are likely to win, so they have to think backward about how a jury would react. They’re not going to invest time in a case that wouldn’t fly with regular peole.
And we have known for a while that marketing privacy norms are different from those of regular people. Americans Reject Tailored Advertising and Three Activities That Enable It came out in 2009. And the research since then has been pretty consistent, too. Not consistent as in uniform, consistently diverse. People are different.
But marketing, according to a report from BBH Labs, has the highest “group cohesion score” of any occupation.
How can we possibly understand, represent and sell to an entire country when we exist in such a bubble? We like to style ourselves as free thinkers, mavericks and crazies, but the grim truth is that we’re a more insular profession than farming and boast more conformists than the military. We have become the followers of Brian, shouting “we are all individuals” in mindless unison. No wonder we’re so out of touch.
The people who run into the kind of “privacy compliance” problems that they need to ask Alan Chapell about are the inhabitants of a peculiar filter bubble where not only do words like “relevance” mean something different, all the norms about how people use information about each other are oversimplified and skewed in the same direction.
Hey, you know that Mark Zuckerberg dude who was chosen as “least trusted” in that one poll? Can you please set up some software to let him know what page of my medical device manual I’m reading? — Your customer, probably not
A company with privacy right of action problems doesn’t have a problem with lawyers, or even with laws. They might have a problem with compliance taxes imposed on regular companies by Big Tech, but the root cause is deeper. That company has a problem with juries. The same people who, in another context, are customers or potential customers.
To re-connect, try the interruption test.
How to do the interruption test
Nobody wants to deal with a privacy case that goes all the way to a jury, just to find out what people think about your data practices. That’s expensive. Fortunately, it’s easier to talk to the potential jurors up front. And it’s possible to spot the kinds of privacy issues that could turn into a whole case, way before lawyers do.
Get a group of regular people together. Customers and the kind of people you think would be likely customers. Call it a research panel, a focus group, whatever.
Explain how the company uses data and inferences for marketing. The explanation doesn’t have to be long, make it as if it were a short item for an audience of co-workers at a company all-hands meeting.
When someone interrupts and asks something like “how do I turn that off?” or “how do I delete my name?” those data practices failed the test.
If you get through explaining the whole thing, you’re probably good. Yes, a lawyer should give the privacy policy a thorough read, but the main thing is how to re-anchor the marketing profession’s data norms to be somewhere close to regular people’s.
More: the 30-40-30 rule
Bonus links
The
Washington Post Loves Data Centers a Lot More Than Disclosing Jeff
Bezos’s Financial Interest in Promoting Them by Paul Farhi.
Similarly, the corporate web of connections is even more complicated
than Post readers would ever learn from its editorial page. Amazon and
OpenAI aren’t just competitors in the AI race; they’re partners under a
multiyear, $138 billion investment by OpenAI into AWS’s cloud-computing
infrastructure. I couldn’t find a single reference to this agreement in
any of the paper’s supportive commentary.
What
Was Matt Thinking? By Ernie Smith. Wright, and others like him,
hit upon an obvious need. Regular people found these scripts, ran them,
and suddenly had forums, counters, and contact forms. They got the job
done. But programmers who weren’t in high school and weren’t so wet
behind the ears looked aghast at what Wright had done: He had spread
poorly designed, but widely used software across the internet.
In
memory of the man who put red and green squiggles under words by
Raymond Chen. Tony made the spell checker much more unobtrusive so
that it didn’t interfere with your foreground work.
https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/
by Ben Hopkinson. The winner of regional assembly elections has all
of the levers of control over a project at their disposal. They can
approve new projects, fund those projects by borrowing, and oversee the
construction to deliver the project. Enterprising politicians at the
regional level of government could claim that they are going to build
metro extensions, and then have the power to build; in turn their
political fortunes would be tied to successfully delivering the
project.