Jesse Friedman: Welcome to Impressive Hosting, a podcast about the role hosting plays in shaping the open web. I’m your host, Jesse Friedman. On this show, we go deeper than uptime and dashboards. We talk about hosting as infrastructure, about ownership, independence, and what it takes to build ethical, high-end WordPress hosting that actually serves creators, businesses, and the internet itself. Before we dive in, head to impressive.host. That’s where you can comment on episodes, ask follow-up questions, and help shape future conversations. You’ll also find links to follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen. We are joined by Chris Coyier, the Chris Coyier, the guy behind CodePen, behind CSS-Tricks, a WordPress advocate for many, many years. We had a great first episode. We talked about a little bit of everything. And where we kind of left off was around AI and the use of it on CodePen. I’m curious, just jumping right back in here, where do you see…

Chris Coyier: Suckers. Here we go.

Jesse Friedman: Chris, you gotta come on weekly. It’s a lot of fun. Is there a typical CodePen user, and what are they building? You launched CodePen 2.0 so they can put a domain on and launch what they’re building right from there, but what is it you hope to see? What do you want customers doing with it?

Chris Coyier: That’s an awesome question. You’d think I’d be all over that. I think I am to some degree, but it’s like, who is your exact customer? You better know, right, business boy? Like, how successful do you think you can be if you don’t even know who your customer is? I think I kind of know in that front-end developers are their own little community. And if you came up in my generation, you probably know me because of CSS-Tricks and the fact that I’ve spoken at a million things. I just tried to be as visible as I could to other front-end developers. There are plenty of dark matter ones. Have you ever heard that term? We were talking in the break about secret terms that nobody knows. But I’ve always liked the idea of dark matter developers, which are people that are totally employed in the industry but not attached to the community at all. They don’t…

Jesse Friedman: I’ve never heard that term, no.

Chris Coyier: They’re not gonna show up at a WordCamp. They work in WordPress, but they just go home at night and garden or whatever. You’re never gonna hear from them. Which is good in a way and fine, you know. But I think there’s more of that than you think. I don’t mean that if you’re a front-end developer, you know me. I’m pretty sure there’s plenty of dark matter front-end developers that just don’t care. But the ones that do know me, by virtue of knowing me, you probably know my CodePen journey a little bit, and you’ve used CodePen because it is actually useful for all kinds of different weird little niche reasons. One of them being like, I just need to show somebody some HTML and CSS for some reason, because we’re talking about it at work, because I’m having a bug with it, because I have a client and they need to see it or whatever. I just need you to see this, and you can’t do that in Slack. You can’t do that on social media. There’s not a great way to just send somebody some HTML, CSS, and JavaScript that renders so they can see it. CodePen is that. You get a URL. It’s called a pen. You type that in there, and you send it to somebody. So if you’ve ever needed that, you used CodePen to do it. And then once you’ve known that you can do that, we have our little opportunity to be like, okay, does it need to be private though? Because if it needs to be private, meaning it’s not gonna show up on search on CodePen, and it’s not gonna be on your profile, we’ll try to keep Google out of it if we possibly can. If it matters to that level, because your client is Nike or something and they’d be pissed if it wasn’t, that’s the pro privacy feature. Just enough people need that feature, or one of the many other dozen pro features we have, that some of them upgrade. Then we get to have a business, and that’s neat. Those are our real customers, the ones that need our pro features and have opened their wallet to us. It’s my job as a business to make more of those people by offering features that more people need. What feature can we add that will be so compelling? I feel like that must have been what your Jetpack days were like to some degree. Like, what could we add to this thing that will get people to just say, “All right, I’m gonna do it.”

Jesse Friedman: Jetpack is interesting because what it was is an amalgamation of features that we were putting on WordPress.com that Matt wanted to make available for free to the rest of the world. So you signed up at WordPress.com, you got all these great features, you wanted to host with someone else like Bluehost or something, well, you could take those features with you. That was Jetpack.

Chris Coyier: Yeah, that’s interesting. But it cost a few bucks eventually, so once it’s broken off into its own thing, it’s like, what else can we give you? But it probably still is primarily that, right? Better images, better search, all this stuff.

Jesse Friedman: The funny thing is a lot of people don’t know this, but Jetpack actually costs Automattic a ton of money and it’s free. For example, we have the site accelerator. It’s a free CDN. It serves trillions of images.

Chris Coyier: The image CDN part is free? Geez.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. And why? Because we want WordPress websites to be faster. Jetpack gets a lot of different opinions, but at the end of the day, the one thing you can’t argue about Jetpack is its light-switch features. Setting up a CDN is a pain in the ass. It’s really tough. And if you have primarily users who are just trying to get things done quickly, get out of web design and get back to running their business, setting up a CDN is not the first thing on their list. The great thing about Jetpack’s feature is you press a button and it just works. The CDN just works by pressing one toggle button. That’s it.

Chris Coyier: Yeah. To me, it was kind of like a non-negotiable. Not a nice-to-have. If you’re serious about your website, you must have it. So figure it out. And do you want a good one that’s free? Yeah, sure. I’ll have that.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah.

Chris Coyier: Cool. So who are those customers… We do tend to catch people a little early in their coding journey at CodePen because people are reading some kind of tutorial about how to do something, and we catch them that way because there’ll be some link to CodePen in there, and they’ll be like, “Oh, cool.” You can fork things on CodePen, so that’s kind of nice too. They have a copy, and they can make changes to it and all that. Just one moment here. Dad, I don’t know what to do. Like, for 18 minutes. Your friend’s gonna be here in four minutes, so you could stare at a wall. That’s one thing you could do. Okay. Let’s see.

Jesse Friedman: That’s awesome.

Chris Coyier: Sorry, everybody. She’s off school today, so she’s like, “What do I do with my body?”

Jesse Friedman: Go to CodePen and code up a video game.

Chris Coyier: Yeah, totally. She likes that. I introduced her to vibe coding a little bit, and that’s more fun because then you don’t have to learn anything. You just type in what you want. She just types in, “I want to play a game where I’m a dragon, and I’m climbing a mountain, and I fight frost giants, and I get a better sword, and then I get to the top of the mountain, and I have to fight a boss.” She just writes it out. The thing just makes it.

Jesse Friedman: I’m gonna do some voice-to-text and pump that right into a prompt and see what I get.

Chris Coyier: If it’s Claude and it’s Opus, it’ll be good.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. Are you doing a lot with Claude Code in particular?

Chris Coyier: I just use it because our journey of building 2.0 has given us such a good code base that I think we’re all proud of and it’s in a good spot. One of the ways AI shines as a tool like Claude Code is when it has a lot of guardrails and context. So we have a good Claude Code file, we have a well-architected code base, and we can articulate things that need to happen or bugs that need to be fixed. I’m very impressed at how much it can accelerate that process. At the moment I’m feeling pretty pleased with our AI overlords. I’m being like, “Thank you. I needed some coding assistance with that, and you were extremely helpful in solving it without having to bug our whole staff.” I think that’s good. I use it and I like it.

Jesse Friedman: You know what’s funny is I used to write a lot of code. Back in the day I would have considered myself a front-end developer, a little back-end, but I was never an elite level world-class engineer or anything like that. I just mentioned this in the last episode, where I feel like AI is making me feel like a super coder, like I’m the developer that I always kind of envisioned I could be one day if I had focused primarily on development and didn’t get into business and partnerships and all this other stuff.

Chris Coyier: Yeah. Welcome back.

Jesse Friedman: Well, I mean, I feel like now I can do anything. In the old days, I always wanted to develop an app because I hate to-do apps. I can’t stand them. I’ve tried every single one of them, and I want one that’s made for me. I always thought about maybe saving up enough money to hire a developer to just make it for me. But now I can just do it myself.

Chris Coyier: Well, it’ll be done in no time, especially… Yeah, but you can type in the stuff, right? Because you can clearly articulate what you want. You know what you want, and you can write it with words, and thus you can have what you want. Your story is not unique. People are like, “I used to code, but when React came around, I was like, ‘Yeah, I’m out.’” It was too weird of a change. Or like, yeah, I made a few WordPress plugins, but it just feels overwhelming now. But that’s okay, because you know enough. You have good taste. You have a knowledge of what is generally possible and what’s a good idea, and you talk to so many people. I could see somebody like you just ripping out WordPress plugins or anything else. You know exactly what you want, and you can articulate it.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. You know, in the past we might joke around and say, “I know enough to get myself in trouble,” but now that same knowledge is enough to actually be really productive. The biggest problem with this stuff is knowing what you don’t necessarily know. Having a good wide net that you can cast over your knowledge and say that I have not very deep knowledge in all this stuff. I can’t go and write a JavaScript library on my own, but I know enough to know what is possible, what can happen. I know how browsers communicate with clients. I know a lot of that stuff, so I can articulate that to AI. And a lot of it comes down to the way in which you prompt. The more you can speak the language of what it is that you want, even if you can’t do it yourself but you can articulate it, the more productive you’re gonna be.

Chris Coyier: Exactly. I think there’s a big difference between having existing code, existing frameworks, and existing choices that provide a ton of context, where you need help evolving that, versus the one-shotty kind of stuff. I think one-shot is a term worth having in our toolbox because it means, I don’t know, I have an idea for a WordPress plugin and I’m just gonna write it down in one paragraph or maybe three or four paragraphs, depending on how much you need to explain about how you want it to behave. Then you hit the button and you just get what you get. AI is amazing because it had very little context. It knew, maybe just by virtue of saying WordPress plugin, that’s kind of a lot, because it knows what APIs it’s gonna need to use and that it’s gonna be in PHP. But my daughter’s thing with her wizard game, she didn’t need to know anything. Nothing at all.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. It’s absolutely amazing. So what are folks that you’re seeing… Are you gonna say something?

Chris Coyier: No, I just… Did we finish that? I don’t know. Yeah, go ahead.

Jesse Friedman: We were talking about the ideal type of customer you wanna see on CodePen, and I think the reason that question felt a little loaded is because it’s like, what do you want kids to do on a playground? Like, it’s not that you necessarily want them to do everything the exact way it was designed. If you wanna go down face first, that’s on you. I feel like CodePen’s kind of like that. You’re giving people the tools to experiment and do a lot of fun and interesting things, and you don’t necessarily know what’s gonna come next.

Chris Coyier: I’ll probably steal that. I like that. They climb up slides more than they slide down them.

Jesse Friedman: That’s what I’m saying. If you try to regulate how kids use a playground, you’re just gonna frustrate everybody. But if you create things that people can use any way they want to, it’s gonna be a lot better. What about a marketplace where people can sell their code or sell snippets? Like, if I want a really sexy mega menu, could I design that and put it on CodePen? Or is it all open source? How does that work?

Chris Coyier: We’ve prototyped that kind of thing. I feel like front end is especially hard to do that with. I’ve hesitated to become a marketplace because then you’re in a different business model. It’s hard to protect that code, and then what do you do with all the bad actors who steal other people’s code and try to sell it? Just a second here. I think you should go outside because they’ll be here any minute. Just look down the street. They’ll turn down any minute. So interestingly, there’s no AI on CodePen yet, and we’re super interested in making that happen, but kind of slow-boating it because I think the longer you wait, the more you learn about what a good implementation might look like and what user expectations are. The early days of AI coding was very much just auto-complete. We lived with that for a couple years at least. It was like that ghost-text experience of, what do you expect the rest of this line of code to be? And that got so good that we were like, “Wow, this is incredibly predictive and amazing.” Then it started to predict three lines of code or more, big chunks, and it was still kind of good. Right now everybody’s pretty much graduated into, no, there’s a sidebar and you talk to it.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah, right.

Chris Coyier: And then it’s affecting lots of files, because it turns out that’s actually more like what I want. But people do it in different ways. I still work with some developers who barely use it at all. They just have ChatGPT totally separate from their code base, and they’re asking it conceptual questions to help think through, but all the coding is their own. And then I know some developers who can’t even be bothered to look at the code at all. There’s an app that ships, started out as a VS Code fork, where you get your little way to talk to it in a sidebar, and it does a great job. There are various ways you can interact with it. You still get the auto-complete, but you get the sidebar too, and you can highlight code to have it refactor it. It’s trying to give you lots of ways to interact with AI and your code. But it recently shipped an agent mode, and this is more and more common, where looking at and dealing with the code is downplayed. It’s more about how many agents can I get to work across how many code bases. It’s trying to put AI to work more than just, I’m working on one task and working with one agent to help me with one part of the website. That’s changing. A year from now, AI companies are incentivized to do this because now we’re ripping through our tokens and needing higher plans. They’re incentivized to get us to use AI for whatever we can. There’s this idea that we’re now just orchestrators. That maybe we look at code less and less. We just ask and talk, and AI dings over here because it’s done, and then you evaluate its work and tell it to move on to the next task, and then another one dings over here. You’re just this conductor of agents.

Jesse Friedman: You know what, I think you’re 100% right. One of the things I keep battling back and forth with is this idea of whether agentic AI has a place in my life in the areas where I wanna be artistic. I feel like I’ve been writing a lot lately. I really enjoy writing. Do I want AI playing a role in my writing? Or if I’m doing photography, I whipped out an old film camera my dad had when he was a photojournalist for a New York newspaper. I found that camera and started using it again. But do I want AI to adjust the light levels and change things? I’m feeling pretty strongly that I don’t want those things. But what I do want AI to do is act like a staff of people working under me. I used to watch West Wing, and one of my favorite things about it was this idealization of having a chief of staff and a bunch of people working for you, where everybody’s just bringing you things and all you have to do is approve or delegate. Take speech writing, for example. A president doesn’t necessarily write every single word of a speech, but he’s in charge of the vision, the message, and the narrative, and he’s gonna put his name on it and actually say the words. But somebody else is doing the work of writing that speech. I feel like AI can act very much like that. And you just mentioned we’re a bunch of orchestrators. I actually just this week started playing with Paperclip and another tool called Multica, which are basically local client software that manage multiple agents for you, and you can route tasks to them very similarly to the way you’d assign a task in Asana or Trello. You just say, “I need you to give me my morning brief,” assign it to an agent, set it to recur every morning at a certain time, and it does all this stuff and can reach out to other agents to answer questions. To circle back to what you were talking about, one thing that’s really interesting is this idea that we’re gonna be able to bring our agents with us. WordPress was about to go down a road of ingesting AI directly into WordPress core, but what they ended up doing was building an abilities API. Now with the real-time user interface, we envision agents acting as users inside your WordPress, but you can bring your agents with you. It’s the same agent who knows you, has its memory of you, you can build skills, and then you can take it and put it into your WordPress website. Or maybe in the future if you ever adopt it into CodePen, the same coding buddy that sits and vibes with you on Cursor could also jump into CodePen and write stuff there.

Chris Coyier: I like that. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way. I’ve thought about it in the sense that that’s what Apple promised us at one time and never gave us. Because Apple knows a ton of stuff about you. It has every picture you’ve ever taken. If you’re pretty deep in the Apple ecosystem, which I unabashedly am, theoretically nobody knows more about you or has access to more about you than Apple does. And it was like, “Oh, that’s great. So it could wake you up in the morning and be like, ‘I put together this chill playlist of songs that you might like.’” Maybe it could be a little more proactive with what it knows about you based on your actions. Like, “It’s Tuesday, so you’re probably gonna drive over to the school about 7:30. Maybe you want these cool cover songs to listen to. I made a playlist that’s the exact length of how long it takes you to drive there.” That’s what I always kind of wanted, to be more like your buddy, to be proactive in some way and know something about you. But yeah, I like your thinking there about how maybe that’s always true, that it’s this buddy that follows you, whether you’re asking it to do some WordPress stuff for you or develop on some other website, or do the cliché ones like, “Find the cheapest flight to Anchorage.”

Jesse Friedman: Yeah.

Chris Coyier: That same one could be the same thing. Yeah, maybe. That’s fun. I think people get a little nervous, so maybe I’ll just say this to people that worry. Sometimes I talk to AI people and I’m like, “What are you talking about?” It seems like they’re walking down the street just chatting with their agents. I don’t do any of that. You’re not terribly behind if you don’t have 10 agents doing work for you 24 hours a day. Don’t feel weird about that.

Jesse Friedman: You don’t have that, what’s it called, Plaid or whatever, where it’s like a microphone that sits on your shirt and transcribes every word that’s said?

Chris Coyier: No, thanks. Did OpenClaw come across your radar in the last month or two?

Jesse Friedman: Open Claw for sure.

Chris Coyier: That’s the one where people are like, “I just talk to it through Discord or WhatsApp, and I’ve got 250 things going for me at all times.” You can barely keep one agent busy, and then there are people who say, “Oh, I get anxiety if my AI could be doing work for me but it’s just sitting idle right now.” I’m like, “Whoa.”

Jesse Friedman: Well, I think there’s this momentum happening, this current that’s pushing us all along with AI. I don’t even go on social media that often, but when I do, my Instagram feed used to be mostly my daughter and wife’s stuff. But somehow I clicked on enough AI content that my feed is now just pure AI stuff, and all I’m watching is all these things people are building. I have to admit it does give me a little anxiety, like I’m missing out. I have a little FOMO. But then I have a second personality that wants to become a farmer and just disappear from technology altogether and write it all off.

Chris Coyier: I get it. I watched an AI video one time of a guy installing OpenClaw, and he’s a YouTuber or whatever, and the only task he could think of to have OpenClaw do was to help him make more videos about OpenClaw. And I was like, whatever, I’m sure you’re a decent guy or smart or interesting or whatever, but that’s not what productivity is.

Jesse Friedman: It’s like a little bit of a meta loop.

Chris Coyier: Yeah. If you can think of nothing that isn’t Ouroboros stuff about what you’re already doing, that’s not good enough. So anyway, I think this can and will evolve. It’s fair to say we’re perhaps a little behind in CodePen on some of these features, but we’re thinking about it from the perspective of leapfrogging. This has happened to us before where other companies have jumped ahead a little bit, and then it’s our opportunity to catch up. We could just copy what they’re doing, but I’d rather think from scratch. What could we do that’s extra, that’s of higher value? I see little examples like that sometimes. A company really nailed the value they’re delivering to people. That’s not just, “Oh, we’ll add a prompt too,” and then you type in the prompt and stuff comes back. That’s useful, and we probably do need that at some point, but I wanna think a little deeper about it. I love your idea, and I don’t know if we’ll do this, but the idea that it’s your agent buddy on CodePen and it knows more about you based on what you’ve done before. It’s not a completely fresh context every time. Maybe it’s highly informed by your existence on CodePen.

Jesse Friedman: The good thing about that methodology is that you’re building bridges and not islands, right? If you go all in on Claude or OpenAI, who knows what’s gonna happen in the next three months. This stuff is evolving so fast that if you double down on a single technology, it feels like a bad bet. But if you build bridges where anybody can port anything they want and make it all integrate the way they feel is best, then you can focus on your tech and just let anybody else bolt on what’s interesting to them.

Chris Coyier: Exactly. And it’s so interesting, we deal with web browsers. We’re web people. It’s interesting to see browsers themselves get interested in this kind of thing. I think a lot of people on the web are impressed specifically with Claude. They seem to be the web people’s choice.

Jesse Friedman: It has a very high success rate when you ask it to do something.

Chris Coyier: Yeah, Claude’s just good. But let’s say you price it out, like you wanna make a company. You’re gonna make a WordPress plugin that does some stuff with AI, and you’re gonna just use Claude to do it. I don’t know if everybody realized just how expensive it is. If your plan is to use good Anthropic models, you better be delivering some insane value so you can charge hundreds of dollars a month, which is gonna be hard to do in this day and age. Otherwise, you gotta be ready to burn money, or you’re looking at not using their models.

Jesse Friedman: There are apps out there that help you understand the cost of tokens and how many tokens your input and output uses. And that number can fly off the shelves. The thing is you can do it accidentally. It’s a good thing they put in all these limits because you can make a request, upload a bunch of files, and all of a sudden you’ve burned through your whole budget super quick.

Chris Coyier: Yeah.

Jesse Friedman: But listen, we’re getting to the end of this episode. Before we go, I’m gonna ask you a question that people have been asking me and I don’t have a good answer for. I am really excited about something I’m working on at Automattic. Right now Matt has instituted this thing called Radical Speed Month. He’s basically wiped out our org chart and told us all to pair up with whoever we want and build something awesome for the next 30 days. That’s what we’re doing. And 30 days is actually a long time these days. One of the things I’m looking at is what is the next evolution of websites. So one of the things I’m playing with in Radical Speed Month is this idea of a live real-time personalization engine. Something that can change the content, the design, and the graphical elements of a website in real time. You arrive at a website, you give it a prompt or you answer a question or click a button, and it learns your intent and your motivation. Maybe the website starts changing around you. Instead of hunting and pecking around and being encyclopedic like a website typically is, where you need to index everything and then know what you’re looking for and go find it, maybe it can just bring everything to you as you need it. But I’m curious, what do you think is the next evolution of websites?

Chris Coyier: It needs somebody that’s weird. Like, it’s not gonna be what you think it is, or it’s not gonna be terribly obvious what that answer is. And I like you. I don’t know. I feel like, what can a website do in the future? What will it look like years from now? Five years is always a fun one. That’s a number you threw out earlier that I think is fascinating to think about, because it’s very hard to guess one year from now, so you definitely can’t guess 10. We could all be living on Mars or who knows. Things go crazy. And especially when it comes to this AI stuff, has anything ever moved this fast? It’s wild.

Jesse Friedman: Right. Yeah.

Chris Coyier: So it’s very hard to guess. But like, what could a website become? And in a way, is that really good for a company like CodePen? Could it be that coding becomes almost a trivially easy thing to do, that people still need to share it, and they still want their hearts and likes and comments, and they still need hosting for it, and they need all this stuff? Or does even that go away somehow? Like, do we need fewer websites because this stuff is so good? I’m kind of just hoping and banking on, and I’m okay with, putting my investments where I think the web’s gonna be bigger and better, not smaller. It could go either way, but I’d rather think of the fun outcome. It seems to be going that way. I’ve talked to some other SaaS companies that provide data hosting or things like that, and they’re seeing growth. Are you comfortable talking about that? Are you seeing growth in WordPress hosting needs in the AI world?

Jesse Friedman: In the AI world specifically? Well…

Chris Coyier: I mean, just are there more websites? Are people still making as many websites as there were, and buying hosting at the same rate as they have been?

Jesse Friedman: That’s a really good question. I think the entire open web market has seen a shift, and we talked about this previously. Closed-platform social media is definitely taking its toll. But at the end of the day, at least right now, I think it’s for sure true that people still need a website. Do I think that’s gonna be true in three months, six months, five years?

Chris Coyier: Yeah, I…

Jesse Friedman: I get nervous. I get really nervous about things like Instagram. Instagram creates an environment where it makes it very easy to get yourself up there, get some content up there, and all of a sudden people don’t necessarily feel the need to own a website. But the reality is they don’t necessarily own their connection to their users either. It’ll all disappear overnight.

Chris Coyier: It really is, Jesse, because a restaurant can easily be like, “Instagram’s so easy though. I post that we’re doing special corn dogs, everybody knows, and they show up. All I needed to do was post a little graphic. That’s way easier than a website.” And they’re right. It is easier. And it’s very risky, and all that can go away overnight. You don’t have to do one or the other. You can do both. And it doesn’t help you with Google Maps. There’s a lot going on there.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. But here’s the thing, and this is what gives me a lot of hope. If you look at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, whatever, it’s all information being pushed to you. An algorithm decides what you’re gonna get and pushes it to you. What I think is really interesting for us, at least in the near future, is this idea that we could have AI act as a polling agent. Right now you go to Instagram, it pushes content in front of you. On Android, you swipe left and you get the Google feed where it pushes you articles, blog posts, YouTube videos. All of this stuff is being forced into your world. But with AI, what could become really interesting is an AI-powered reader, where instead of information being pushed to you from some big platform that has decided what you should see, the AI who really does know you could be reaching out into the world and pulling what you actually care about back into your world. I think that’s really interesting.

Chris Coyier: That’s nice, but that’s also just a single platform then. Now you’re not visiting those websites to get that content, which has implications.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah, but then you control that algorithm. The benefit there would be that you’d actually have more control over the content. And the really cool thing would be that instead of all this stuff living on siloed platforms like Instagram, the need for a website would actually exist even more, because these AI agents would need to know where to go out into the world to get it. So the open web might actually have a large resurgence in the way AI absorbs content instead of it all living on closed platforms. Well, I mean, you and I, maybe we can shape it. Maybe we can actually make it happen. Who knows.

Chris Coyier: Maybe. I mean, it’d be good for a lot of people. When I was talking to the guy who ran that data storage cloud company, he wasn’t seeing reduced growth. He was seeing great growth, which I find interesting. Because you’d think, there’s a world where AI is just cranking out code so fast that maybe you need less of the storage services because you can just do it wherever else you’re coding. But it kind of makes sense to me that AI is producing this code for you, but you still need to do something with it. It still needs to go somewhere. You still need services to help you with that. And ultimately a lot of times all that code is bound for the web. So the web is just bigger, happier, and healthier than ever, and I like it.

Jesse Friedman: Love it.

Chris Coyier: Cool. Gosh, there’s just a million more things to talk about, but that’s okay.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. And at the end of the day, we’re at the end of the episode. So we gotta take another break. I would love to have you back on though. You’re such a pro at podcasts. I feel like you’re on something every other week. You’ve got another thing going on, and you’ve got this big release for CodePen, which I’m very happy about. I can’t wait to see what comes from that.

Chris Coyier: Likewise, you know. But yeah, keep getting more voices on here. Somebody’s gonna get it right, and we’ll be like, “See? I had them on the podcast before they were famous.”

Jesse Friedman: You may be right. All right, man. Well, thanks so much for joining. It was great having you.

Chris Coyier: Yeah, likewise. See you around, Jesse.

Jesse Friedman: Thanks for joining us on another episode of Impressive Hosting, where we uncover the core tenets of great WordPress hosting. Do you have a follow-up question for today’s guest, a thought or comment on anything we talked about, a future guest suggestion, or a hosting horror story? What do you think makes great WordPress hosting? All your comments shape the show. Drop them on impressive.host. We also appreciate you following us on social media and subscribing to the podcast on your favorite platform. Finally, do check out our list of open source projects that need support at impressive.host. Whether it’s code, community, or cash, you can make a difference. See you next time.